Hi,
i know, i already started a discussion some time ago, but it stopped with conclusions about some imponderableness, but i would like to see this topic again discussed
at first i would only be interested in who on this list would agree on changing the license - independent from any possible problems
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
please comment! all!
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 06:40:42AM +0200, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
+1 to a form of AGPL here. It doesn't have to be AGPL3, but AGPL in general.
Robin H. Johnson schrieb:
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 06:40:42AM +0200, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
+1 to a form of AGPL here. It doesn't have to be AGPL3, but AGPL in general.
AGPL v3 is compatible to GPL v3, so parts of phpMyAdmin could stay at GPL ... but this is another/later issue ...
On Tue, June 24, 2008 06:40, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
The licence requires some kind of download source button that instantly provides the source code. How would you see that implemented?
I guess that any licence change would be starting from pma v3? Are all authors that have ever contributed to pma still reachable?
Thijs
Thijs Kinkhorst schrieb:
On Tue, June 24, 2008 06:40, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
The licence requires some kind of download source button that instantly provides the source code. How would you see that implemented?
I guess that any licence change would be starting from pma v3? Are all authors that have ever contributed to pma still reachable?
please, i think i know most problems, and many of them are already mentioned last time and (at the moment) not subject of my question
cause we do not need to discuss this if not most/all would agree to change license
i just want to know if you agree to see phpMyAdmin licensed under AGPL v3 (regardless of any problems)! :-)
On Tue, June 24, 2008 09:38, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
please, i think i know most problems, and many of them are already mentioned last time and (at the moment) not subject of my question
cause we do not need to discuss this if not most/all would agree to change license
i just want to know if you agree to see phpMyAdmin licensed under AGPL v3 (regardless of any problems)! :-)
The only other thread I can find about this (when searching for AGPL or Affero in the archives) is the one from 2007-11-27, do you mean that one? It only received comments that people don't see the need going through the hassle.
What use is it to discuss this if there's no interest to go through the hassle of actually making it possible?
Is there a concrete case where you would like to have the modifications but can't get them now? Or is it still theoretical?
Thijs
Thijs Kinkhorst schrieb:
On Tue, June 24, 2008 09:38, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
please, i think i know most problems, and many of them are already mentioned last time and (at the moment) not subject of my question
cause we do not need to discuss this if not most/all would agree to change license
i just want to know if you agree to see phpMyAdmin licensed under AGPL v3 (regardless of any problems)! :-)
The only other thread I can find about this (when searching for AGPL or Affero in the archives) is the one from 2007-11-27, do you mean that one? It only received comments that people don't see the need going through the hassle.
What use is it to discuss this if there's no interest to go through the hassle of actually making it possible?
Is there a concrete case where you would like to have the modifications but can't get them now? Or is it still theoretical?
so you do not agree? or in other terms: you think GPL v2 better suites phpMyAdmin than AGPL v3?
On Tue, June 24, 2008 10:06, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
so you do not agree? or in other terms: you think GPL v2 better suites phpMyAdmin than AGPL v3?
I'm not sure what I think when the project would just be started from scratch. There's pros and cons which I've listed on other moments.
Now that the project is mature it would be even more of a hassle to change it for the complete codebase. Given that I already see pros and cons in the initial choice and there's a lot of practical hassle to change it, that makes me tip the scale to status quo.
Thijs
Thijs Kinkhorst schrieb:
On Tue, June 24, 2008 06:40, Sebastian Mendel wrote:
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
The licence requires some kind of download source button that instantly provides the source code. How would you see that implemented?
I guess that any licence change would be starting from pma v3? Are all authors that have ever contributed to pma still reachable?
btw. i did not read 'instant', whatever instant means in this case, it just says that changed sources must be available as download at no charge
if they do not change anything in phpMyAdmin they do not need to provide any download
Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
Hi,
i know, i already started a discussion some time ago, but it stopped with conclusions about some imponderableness, but i would like to see this topic again discussed
at first i would only be interested in who on this list would agree on changing the license - independent from any possible problems
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
From the GPL FAQ: ----------------- Does the GPL require that source code of modified versions be posted to the public?
The GPL does not require you to release your modified version, or any part of it. You are free to make modifications and use them privately, without ever releasing them. This applies to organizations (including companies), too; an organization can make a modified version and use it internally without ever releasing it outside the organization.
But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL.
Thus, the GPL gives permission to release the modified program in certain ways, and not in other ways; but the decision of whether to release it is up to you. ---------------
Sebastian, are you referring to some hosting company that makes a modified version and uses it internally, or releases the modified version in some way?
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
please comment! all!
Marc Delisle schrieb:
Sebastian, are you referring to some hosting company that makes a modified version and uses it internally, or releases the modified version in some way?
companies (including hosting companies) that provide access to a modified phpMyAdmin installation (SaaS) or provide a pre-installed copy of a modified phpMyAdmin.
Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
Marc Delisle schrieb:
Sebastian, are you referring to some hosting company that makes a modified version and uses it internally, or releases the modified version in some way?
companies (including hosting companies) that provide access to a modified phpMyAdmin installation (SaaS) or provide a pre-installed copy of a modified phpMyAdmin.
Ok. Well, I am part of this group of persons that believe that the modifications should be made public, according to the spirit of GPL.
Marc
Hi there,
Marc Delisle schrieb:
Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
companies (including hosting companies) that provide access to a modified phpMyAdmin installation (SaaS) or provide a pre-installed copy of a modified phpMyAdmin.
Ok. Well, I am part of this group of persons that believe that the modifications should be made public, according to the spirit of GPL.
I would agree with Marc and in the case that it would come to a vote among all the former and current devs of phpMyAdmin, mine would be: stick with GPL. I don't know, how much AMT code is still in pma, though. :-)
My point is that a modified pma should not be something people make money with.
I see the problems, hosters might have with releasing their modifications under the GPL, if those affect for instance interfaces to their own software. An idea might be, to allow those private modifications for certain parts, let's say the auth system or the privileges page. That means, that those parts of the code would be put under the AGPL. But anyway, you still would have to ask the all devs of those parts, which means, you would have to study CVS and SVN logs, tracker items, ... I wouldn't want to do that, do you? ;-)
Regards,
Alexander
cand. inf. Alexander M. Turek schrieb:
Hi there,
Marc Delisle schrieb:
Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
companies (including hosting companies) that provide access to a modified phpMyAdmin installation (SaaS) or provide a pre-installed copy of a modified phpMyAdmin.
Ok. Well, I am part of this group of persons that believe that the modifications should be made public, according to the spirit of GPL.
I would agree with Marc and in the case that it would come to a vote among all the former and current devs of phpMyAdmin, mine would be: stick with GPL.
but GPL does not require making all code public!?
I don't know, how much AMT code is still in pma, though. :-)
AMT?
My point is that a modified pma should not be something people make money with.
yes, thats why AGPL
I see the problems, hosters might have with releasing their modifications under the GPL, if those affect for instance interfaces to their own software. An idea might be, to allow those private modifications for certain parts, let's say the auth system or the privileges page. That means, that those parts of the code would be put under the AGPL.
?
but putting tis parts undr AGPL would require them to make it public, i am confused ...
But anyway, you still would have to ask the all devs of those parts, which means, you would have to study CVS and SVN logs, tracker items, ... I wouldn't want to do that, do you? ;-)
filtering out any commits with less then 5 subsequent lines changed or just moved code around - would reduce it heavily.
(changing code, fixing bugs, formating, cleaning up does not change copyright)
Hi there,
Sebastian Mendel schrieb:
AMT?
My initials. Some time ago, I wrote code for this project. ;-)
My point is that a modified pma should not be something people make money with.
yes, thats why AGPL
Uuhm, I've had a bad day and mixed up some stuff, I guess. For some reason, I thought, it would be the other way round. Forget everything, I wrote, please.
Regards,
AMT ;-)
cand. inf. Alexander M. Turek a écrit :
Hi there,
Marc Delisle schrieb:
Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
companies (including hosting companies) that provide access to a modified phpMyAdmin installation (SaaS) or provide a pre-installed copy of a modified phpMyAdmin.
Ok. Well, I am part of this group of persons that believe that the modifications should be made public, according to the spirit of GPL.
I would agree with Marc and in the case that it would come to a vote among all the former and current devs of phpMyAdmin, mine would be: stick with GPL. I don't know, how much AMT code is still in pma, though. :-)
My point is that a modified pma should not be something people make money with.
Well, GPL v2 does allow people to make money with the code. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
I see the problems, hosters might have with releasing their modifications under the GPL, if those affect for instance interfaces to their own software. An idea might be, to allow those private modifications for certain parts, let's say the auth system or the privileges page. That means, that those parts of the code would be put under the AGPL. But anyway, you still would have to ask the all devs of those parts, which means, you would have to study CVS and SVN logs, tracker items, ... I wouldn't want to do that, do you? ;-)
Regards,
Alexander
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Sebastian Mendel a écrit :
Hi,
i know, i already started a discussion some time ago, but it stopped with conclusions about some imponderableness, but i would like to see this topic again discussed
at first i would only be interested in who on this list would agree on changing the license - independent from any possible problems
If I understand the process correctly, it's not the readers of a devel list that can agree to change the license, it's the persons who hold the copyright of this software -- see our README.
Marc
Hi
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:40:42 +0200 Sebastian Mendel lists@sebastianmendel.de wrote:
i know, i already started a discussion some time ago, but it stopped with conclusions about some imponderableness, but i would like to see this topic again discussed
at first i would only be interested in who on this list would agree on changing the license - independent from any possible problems
But you can not change license independent of problems. You have to ask all contributors to do this.
the main reason i would prefer license change is SaaS (Software as a service)
somebody hosting software based on phpMyAdmin is not required to make his changes available to the community
i would suggest AGPL 3.0
I think GPL is good enough for now.
-
cand. inf. Alexander M. Turek -
Marc Delisle -
Michal Čihař -
Robin H. Johnson -
Sebastian Mendel -
Thijs Kinkhorst