[Phpmyadmin-devel] Is vertical mode useful?
Hi, I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful. Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon. The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature. -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
On 6/21/2011 9:16 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
For what it's worth, I've never used it, have never spoken to anyone who mentioned using it (certainly no one in IRC has sought help with it to my recollection), and a quick search on Google doesn't find any interesting results about switching to vertical mode (mostly documentation and developer notes). Regards, ~isaac
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Isaac Bennetch <bennetch@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/21/2011 9:16 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
For what it's worth, I've never used it, have never spoken to anyone who mentioned using it (certainly no one in IRC has sought help with it to my recollection), and a quick search on Google doesn't find any interesting results about switching to vertical mode (mostly documentation and developer notes).
Can't agree more. I feel that it's not worth maintaining the functionality, considering the complexity it adds to the code. I am also in favor of removing it.
-- Thanks and Regards, Madhura Jayaratne
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 19:04 +0530, Madhura Jayaratne wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Isaac Bennetch <bennetch@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/21/2011 9:16 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
For what it's worth, I've never used it, have never spoken to anyone who mentioned using it (certainly no one in IRC has sought help with it to my recollection), and a quick search on Google doesn't find any interesting results about switching to vertical mode (mostly documentation and developer notes).
Can't agree more. I feel that it's not worth maintaining the functionality, considering the complexity it adds to the code. I am also in favor of removing it.
+1. The only time I used it was when implementing a feature request. Rouslan
On 21 Jun 2011, at 20:46, Rouslan Placella <rouslan@placella.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 19:04 +0530, Madhura Jayaratne wrote:
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:58 PM, Isaac Bennetch <bennetch@gmail.com> wrote:
On 6/21/2011 9:16 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
For what it's worth, I've never used it, have never spoken to anyone who mentioned using it (certainly no one in IRC has sought help with it to my recollection), and a quick search on Google doesn't find any interesting results about switching to vertical mode (mostly documentation and developer notes).
Can't agree more. I feel that it's not worth maintaining the functionality, considering the complexity it adds to the code. I am also in favor of removing it.
+1. The only time I used it was when implementing a feature request.
I also agree. Future development regarding tables will also be easier then. -- Aris Feryanto
Marc Delisle a écrit :
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
Of course I meant removing it starting with 3.5.x. -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:16:50 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
You mean in browsing? I think it can be removed, I've never used it. PS: I think editing table structure should have also only one mode and not vertical and horizontal like we have right now... -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:16:50 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
You mean in browsing? I think it can be removed, I've never used it.
Sorry, only talking about browsing here
PS: I think editing table structure should have also only one mode and not vertical and horizontal like we have right now...
For table structure, using just horizontal proved problematic (required much scrolling) but maybe this can be improved in another clever way. Horizontal or vertical modes are problematic when there are more than 3 columns... -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:13:24 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
PS: I think editing table structure should have also only one mode and not vertical and horizontal like we have right now...
For table structure, using just horizontal proved problematic (required much scrolling) but maybe this can be improved in another clever way.
Horizontal or vertical modes are problematic when there are more than 3 columns...
Indeed, but the changing it at 3 columns is pretty confusing, especially when you add fourth column. I think the way it is done in Adminer can be good inspiration: http://adminer.sourceforge.net/adminer.php?username=&db=a264133_8j3ib554&cre... - Default values not show unless specially asked for - Collation and Attributes share same column because they apply to different column types - It also does not allow to define additional indexes while creating table -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:13:24 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
PS: I think editing table structure should have also only one mode and not vertical and horizontal like we have right now... For table structure, using just horizontal proved problematic (required much scrolling) but maybe this can be improved in another clever way.
Horizontal or vertical modes are problematic when there are more than 3 columns...
Indeed, but the changing it at 3 columns is pretty confusing, especially when you add fourth column.
I think the way it is done in Adminer can be good inspiration:
http://adminer.sourceforge.net/adminer.php?username=&db=a264133_8j3ib554&cre...
- Default values not show unless specially asked for - Collation and Attributes share same column because they apply to different column types - It also does not allow to define additional indexes while creating table
I haven't checked how they do it, but they don't need (like we do) to show these: - MIME type - Browser transformation - Transformation options -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:36:54 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I haven't checked how they do it, but they don't need (like we do) to show these: - MIME type - Browser transformation - Transformation options
Indeed. Maybe this could be moved to browse options and configured from there? This way you can apply transformation even for one time browsing and not requiring configuration storage what would make this feature much more visible than it is currently. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:36:54 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I haven't checked how they do it, but they don't need (like we do) to show these: - MIME type - Browser transformation - Transformation options
Indeed. Maybe this could be moved to browse options and configured from there? This way you can apply transformation even for one time browsing and not requiring configuration storage what would make this feature much more visible than it is currently.
For people (like one of the teachers here) who rely daily on seeing his images while browsing, it would not be productive to have to specify transformation options everytime he browses. But I agree that *as an additional feature*, this can be configurable when browsing. -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:51:27 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:36:54 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I haven't checked how they do it, but they don't need (like we do) to show these: - MIME type - Browser transformation - Transformation options
Indeed. Maybe this could be moved to browse options and configured from there? This way you can apply transformation even for one time browsing and not requiring configuration storage what would make this feature much more visible than it is currently.
For people (like one of the teachers here) who rely daily on seeing his images while browsing, it would not be productive to have to specify transformation options everytime he browses.
The column order is saved as well between session, so would be the transformations. I think it's more logical to define browse transformations while browsing and not when creating table. This would be especially true when the table is not being created in phpMyAdmin.
But I agree that *as an additional feature*, this can be configurable when browsing.
I don't think we need two ways to configure same thing. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:51:27 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:36:54 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I haven't checked how they do it, but they don't need (like we do) to show these: - MIME type - Browser transformation - Transformation options Indeed. Maybe this could be moved to browse options and configured from there? This way you can apply transformation even for one time browsing and not requiring configuration storage what would make this feature much more visible than it is currently. For people (like one of the teachers here) who rely daily on seeing his images while browsing, it would not be productive to have to specify transformation options everytime he browses.
The column order is saved as well between session, so would be the transformations. I think it's more logical to define browse transformations while browsing and not when creating table. This would be especially true when the table is not being created in phpMyAdmin.
I did not understand what you meant, as you wrote "not requiring configuration storage".
But I agree that *as an additional feature*, this can be configurable when browsing.
I don't think we need two ways to configure same thing.
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:57:54 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
I did not understand what you meant, as you wrote "not requiring configuration storage".
By not requiring I mean it will work also without it, but settings will be kept only for one session in this case (I guess column reordering works this way). In case it is available settings will be stored permanently. This is just an idea I got when you brought up these features missing from create table dialog, because I think these options really don't belong there. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
How did it get there in the first place?
Maybe this could be asked in the user survey but I would like opinions from this list, soon.
The reason is that supporting this mode for all new features increases code complexity; I am in favor of removing this feature.
I'd also suggest to make some sort of survey about this before removing it. As for me, I have never used it either, but I could imagine it would be useful for tables with *lots* of columns. It is indeed questionable whether it pays off to have vertical mode for the price of increased code complexity.
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
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Hi Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:08 +0200 Tyron Madlener <tyronx@gmail.com> napsal(a):
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
How did it get there in the first place?
I think it's there from very ancient times :-). Actually Marc has committed this in 2001.
I'd also suggest to make some sort of survey about this before removing it. As for me, I have never used it either, but I could imagine it would be useful for tables with *lots* of columns. It is indeed questionable whether it pays off to have vertical mode for the price of increased code complexity.
I think it can be added to list of features we ask whether people know/use in the survey. But it would postpone removal for quite a long time. -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Michal Čihař <michal@cihar.com> wrote:
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:08 +0200 Tyron Madlener <tyronx@gmail.com> napsal(a):
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
How did it get there in the first place?
I think it's there from very ancient times :-). Actually Marc has committed this in 2001.
I'd also suggest to make some sort of survey about this before removing it. As for me, I have never used it either, but I could imagine it would be useful for tables with *lots* of columns. It is indeed questionable whether it pays off to have vertical mode for the price of increased code complexity.
I think it can be added to list of features we ask whether people know/use in the survey. But it would postpone removal for quite a long time.
What about putting a (bi-)weekly poll on the phpmyadmin website for a quick survey like this?
-- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
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Le 2011-06-22 05:07, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:06:08 +0200 Tyron Madlener <tyronx@gmail.com> napsal(a):
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> wrote:
Hi,
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
How did it get there in the first place?
I think it's there from very ancient times :-). Actually Marc has committed this in 2001.
It came from this proposed patch: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=492470&group_id=23067&atid=... -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi!
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
How did it get there in the first place?
I think it's there from very ancient times :-). Actually Marc has committed this in 2001.
It came from this proposed patch: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=492470&group_id=23067&atid=... 10
I actually still find this quite useful, especially when I work with Typ3 Tables which often have 30+ columns... :-) Regards, Garvin -- ++ Garvin Hicking | Web-Entwickler [PHP] | www.garv.in | ICQ 21392242 ++ Developer | http://www.s9y.org ++ GEPhotography | http://mk.garv.in ++ Make me happy | http://wishes.garv.in
Le 2011-06-23 07:39, Garvin Hicking a écrit :
Hi!
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
I actually still find this quite useful, especially when I work with Typ3 Tables which often have 30+ columns... :-)
Regards, Garvin
Hi Garvin, don't you have to scroll vertically then? -- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Hi Dne Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:29:53 -0400 Marc Delisle <marc@infomarc.info> napsal(a):
Le 2011-06-23 07:39, Garvin Hicking a écrit :
Hi!
I know that vertical mode has been available for ages in phpMyAdmin but I'm wondering if it's useful.
I actually still find this quite useful, especially when I work with Typ3 Tables which often have 30+ columns... :-)
Regards, Garvin
Hi Garvin, don't you have to scroll vertically then?
Not really - at least when I tried this with a 35 columns table, I'm able to see single row from table at once in vertical mode, while it takes 3-4 screens to see them in horizontal mode (on 1920x1200 screen). It takes only 2 screens in horizontal mode with flipped headers, but I find flipped headers so ugly, that I would never use this one. This does not change anything on the fact that I do not use vertical mode :-). -- Michal Čihař | http://cihar.com | http://blog.cihar.com
participants (8)
-
Aris Feryanto -
Garvin Hicking -
Isaac Bennetch -
Madhura Jayaratne -
Marc Delisle -
Michal Čihař -
Rouslan Placella -
Tyron Madlener