Hi,
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I would even suggest to make the new theme the default one (if the chosen theme's author agrees); the "original" theme is seen by some as being outdated (but AFAIK the code relies on its presence).
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
I would even suggest to make the new theme the default one (if the chosen theme's author agrees); the "original" theme is seen by some as being outdated (but AFAIK the code relies on its presence).
Yes, changing default theme sounds like something we should consider.
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
I would even suggest to make the new theme the default one (if the chosen theme's author agrees); the "original" theme is seen by some as being outdated (but AFAIK the code relies on its presence).
Yes, changing default theme sounds like something we should consider.
Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl
Phpmyadmin-devel mailing list Phpmyadmin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpmyadmin-devel
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:56:11 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
It definitely needs some work, but I like the look.
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
Not sure about it as well.
Le 2010-12-28 09:03, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:56:11 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
It's true that Paradice or Arctic Ocean are more heavy on colors, maybe too heavy for a default theme.
We need more input from other developers and users...
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
It definitely needs some work, but I like the look.
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
Not sure about it as well.
2010/12/28 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info:
Le 2010-12-28 09:03, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:56:11 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
It's true that Paradice or Arctic Ocean are more heavy on colors, maybe too heavy for a default theme.
We need more input from other developers and users...
I like the proposed themes, in this order : Arctic Ocean, pmamhomme, Paradice. But I have an issue with the tabs being shown as a list (<ul>), rather than on top (in current default theme). With Arctic Ocean the top of the page is not visible because the different tabs are list vertically rather than horizontally, overlapping with what's on top, but this might be a browser issue (I tested with Firefox 3.6.13 and Google Chrome 8, both on Ubuntu 10.10)
Maybe we can do a poll to get user input?
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
It definitely needs some work, but I like the look.
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
Not sure about it as well.
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl _______________________________________________ Phpmyadmin-devel mailing list Phpmyadmin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpmyadmin-devel
Le 2010-12-31 10:33, Dieter Adriaenssens a écrit :
2010/12/28 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info:
Le 2010-12-28 09:03, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:56:11 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
It's true that Paradice or Arctic Ocean are more heavy on colors, maybe too heavy for a default theme.
We need more input from other developers and users...
I like the proposed themes, in this order : Arctic Ocean, pmamhomme, Paradice. But I have an issue with the tabs being shown as a list (<ul>), rather than on top (in current default theme). With Arctic Ocean the top of the page is not visible because the different tabs are list vertically rather than horizontally, overlapping with what's on top, but this might be a browser issue (I tested with Firefox 3.6.13 and Google Chrome 8, both on Ubuntu 10.10)
Did you test Arctic Ocean under 3.4? Because AFAIK these themes have not been ported to 3.4.
Maybe we can do a poll to get user input?
Good idea.
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
It definitely needs some work, but I like the look.
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
Not sure about it as well.
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
2010/12/31 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info:
Le 2010-12-31 10:33, Dieter Adriaenssens a écrit :
2010/12/28 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info:
Le 2010-12-28 09:03, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:56:11 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2010-12-28 08:46, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 08:29:10 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
> I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest > to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of > either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we > should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I like pmahomme more :-).
It's true that Paradice or Arctic Ocean are more heavy on colors, maybe too heavy for a default theme.
We need more input from other developers and users...
I like the proposed themes, in this order : Arctic Ocean, pmamhomme, Paradice. But I have an issue with the tabs being shown as a list (<ul>), rather than on top (in current default theme). With Arctic Ocean the top of the page is not visible because the different tabs are list vertically rather than horizontally, overlapping with what's on top, but this might be a browser issue (I tested with Firefox 3.6.13 and Google Chrome 8, both on Ubuntu 10.10)
Did you test Arctic Ocean under 3.4? Because AFAIK these themes have not been ported to 3.4.
I tested with 3.4, I'll try again with QA_3_3 later... ;)
Maybe we can do a poll to get user input?
Good idea.
Even if table names do not appear in navi panel after a db has been chosen?
It definitely needs some work, but I like the look.
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
P.S. I'm not sure what's the theme name; his SF.net project is pmahomme but in info.inc.php, it's pmamhomme (meaning Mike Hommé).
Not sure about it as well.
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
-- Marc Delisle http://infomarc.info
Learn how Oracle Real Application Clusters (RAC) One Node allows customers to consolidate database storage, standardize their database environment, and, should the need arise, upgrade to a full multi-node Oracle RAC database without downtime or disruption http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl _______________________________________________ Phpmyadmin-devel mailing list Phpmyadmin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/phpmyadmin-devel
Happy New Year!
I will port Artic Ocean to 3.4 soon as possible (may be next week).
The reason why some themes not displayed correctily is that some classes and ID's for some html-elements in the php-sources are changed.
Perhabs we need a documentation for themeing and used css-classnames and css-IDs.
Regards Michael
Am 28.12.2010 14:29, schrieb Marc Delisle:
Hi,
I don't find darkblue_orange particularly attractive. For 3.4 I suggest to move it to custom themes and replace it with an updated version of either Paradice or Arctic Ocean (or maybe ClearView). I still think we should keep our habit of including two themes in the kit.
I would even suggest to make the new theme the default one (if the chosen theme's author agrees); the "original" theme is seen by some as being outdated (but AFAIK the code relies on its presence).
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:50:49 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
Author of the theme just wrote me that these issues should be fixed in next version compatible with 3.4 :-).
Anyway this thread sort of died and I think it should not. The best approach for me seems to have open competition for the theme. Starting with announcing it, where people can submit themes (lets say for one month). Then making public poll for some time (probably with only few themes we choose).
This would bring us more attention from designers and we can get the best user experience out of it. Also this would bring us more themes compatible with 3.4.
Le 2011-01-07 06:06, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Tue, 28 Dec 2010 15:50:49 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
In case we switch the default theme to pmahomme, I would prefer to keep our official logo.
Also, seems to me that there is a waste of space between rows in Browse mode. The same between tables in db Structure.
For Export and Import icons, aren't the arrows reversed?
The Synchronize page (at least the initial page) is too wide vertically.
Author of the theme just wrote me that these issues should be fixed in next version compatible with 3.4 :-).
Anyway this thread sort of died and I think it should not. The best approach for me seems to have open competition for the theme. Starting with announcing it, where people can submit themes (lets say for one month). Then making public poll for some time (probably with only few themes we choose).
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
This would bring us more attention from designers and we can get the best user experience out of it. Also this would bring us more themes compatible with 3.4.
Hi
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
I've written there really first thoughts which came to my mind and definitely needs improvements and polishing.
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
2011/1/10 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com:
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
I have no remarks.
Greets,
Dieter
Le 2011-01-10 07:17, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
Michal, My wife (who studied English) and I think that the English in my version is better than in the latest correction: http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theme_Contest&diff=6387&...
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:46:34 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2011-01-10 07:17, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
Michal, My wife (who studied English) and I think that the English in my version is better than in the latest correction: http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theme_Contest&diff=6387&...
Okay, I'm reverting it.
Le 2011-01-10 09:48, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:46:34 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2011-01-10 07:17, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihař michal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Yes and probably the best place to announce it would be a banner on phpmyadmin.net, plus the users and developers list.
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
Michal, My wife (who studied English) and I think that the English in my version is better than in the latest correction: http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theme_Contest&diff=6387&...
Okay, I'm reverting it.
Could we add a green box "Theme contest" on the right side, linking to the wiki page?
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:59:14 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Could we add a green box "Theme contest" on the right side, linking to the wiki page?
Sure, adding it to git. Will you write the news post?
Le 2011-01-10 10:06, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:59:14 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Could we add a green box "Theme contest" on the right side, linking to the wiki page?
Sure, adding it to git. Will you write the news post?
Yes. Suggestion:
phpMyAdmin's Default Theme Contest
Hi, we invite the phpMyAdmin's community to a themes contest for the upcoming 3.4 release. One of these themes will be the new default theme.
Details on http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:11:21 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2011-01-10 10:06, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:59:14 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Could we add a green box "Theme contest" on the right side, linking to the wiki page?
Sure, adding it to git. Will you write the news post?
Yes. Suggestion:
phpMyAdmin's Default Theme Contest
Hi, we invite the phpMyAdmin's community to a themes contest for the upcoming 3.4 release. One of these themes will be the new default theme.
I'd add more details to the announcement:
Hi we invite the phpMyAdmin's community to a contest for the default theme which will be present in upcoming 3.4 release. Everybody can submit his theme under GNU GPL compatible license till 13th February.
Details on http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
Le 2011-01-10 10:16, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:11:21 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Le 2011-01-10 10:06, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 09:59:14 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Could we add a green box "Theme contest" on the right side, linking to the wiki page?
Sure, adding it to git. Will you write the news post?
Yes. Suggestion:
phpMyAdmin's Default Theme Contest
Hi, we invite the phpMyAdmin's community to a themes contest for the upcoming 3.4 release. One of these themes will be the new default theme.
I'd add more details to the announcement:
Hi we invite the phpMyAdmin's community to a contest for the default theme which will be present in upcoming 3.4 release. Everybody can submit his theme under GNU GPL compatible license till 13th February.
Details on http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
Ok. When to publish?
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:20:27 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Ok. When to publish?
Now? :-)
I've added to wiki another condition - to be compatible with phpMyAdmin 3.4, I think it should be explicitly stated there.
Le 2011-01-10 10:22, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:20:27 -0500 Marc Delisle marc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Ok. When to publish?
Now? :-)
Done, added to https://sourceforge.net/news/?group_id=23067 and sent to the news and users list.
I've added to wiki another condition - to be compatible with phpMyAdmin 3.4, I think it should be explicitly stated there.
Ok.
Hi,
On 1/10/2011 9:46 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Le 2011-01-10 07:17, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihařmichal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delislemarc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
Michal, My wife (who studied English) and I think that the English in my version is better than in the latest correction: http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theme_Contest&diff=6387&...
For what it's worth, I agree, but furthermore tweaked a few words...if you dislike it you can revert, but someone with the privilege should probably also lock the page at least from public editing. We only get a light amount of spam/vandalism, but for something we've promoted like this I wouldn't want to see any unauthorized changes
regards, ~isaac
Le 2011-01-10 11:25, Isaac Bennetch a écrit :
Hi,
On 1/10/2011 9:46 AM, Marc Delisle wrote:
Le 2011-01-10 07:17, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Fri, 7 Jan 2011 13:54:39 +0100 Michal Čihařmichal@cihar.com napsal(a):
Dne Fri, 07 Jan 2011 07:38:38 -0500 Marc Delislemarc@infomarc.info napsal(a):
Okay, let's start with writing down rules for this at wiki - http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/pma/Theme_Contest
No more suggestions/corrections to the text? Can the contest be announced?
Michal, My wife (who studied English) and I think that the English in my version is better than in the latest correction: http://wiki.phpmyadmin.net/wiki/index.php?title=Theme_Contest&diff=6387&...
For what it's worth, I agree, but furthermore tweaked a few words...if you dislike it you can revert, but someone with the privilege should probably also lock the page at least from public editing. We only get a light amount of spam/vandalism, but for something we've promoted like this I wouldn't want to see any unauthorized changes
regards, ~isaac
Hi Isaac, I like your changes and agree that this page should be locked (by Michal).
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:25:04 -0500 Isaac Bennetch bennetch@gmail.com napsal(a):
For what it's worth, I agree, but furthermore tweaked a few words...if you dislike it you can revert, but someone with the privilege should probably also lock the page at least from public editing. We only get a light amount of spam/vandalism, but for something we've promoted like this I wouldn't want to see any unauthorized changes
Okay, page locked...and added you and Marc to administrators of the wiki :-).
Le 2011-01-10 11:35, Michal Čihař a écrit :
Hi
Dne Mon, 10 Jan 2011 11:25:04 -0500 Isaac Bennetch bennetch@gmail.com napsal(a):
For what it's worth, I agree, but furthermore tweaked a few words...if you dislike it you can revert, but someone with the privilege should probably also lock the page at least from public editing. We only get a light amount of spam/vandalism, but for something we've promoted like this I wouldn't want to see any unauthorized changes
Okay, page locked...and added you and Marc to administrators of the wiki :-).
Thanks, this will be useful!
-
Dieter Adriaenssens -
Isaac Bennetch -
Marc Delisle -
Michael Keck -
Michal Čihař